Fórum Dúvidas de Magic Sudden Spoiling
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Sudden Spoiling
 Sudden Spoiling
Guinnf

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Registro: 12/10/16

Postado em: 11/10/18 00:54
A situação é a seguinte:

- Meu oponente possui 3 criaturas 2/2 cada e joga um @Overrun;

- @Overrun resolve e em seguida vamos para o combate e ele declara o ataque com as 3 criaturas;

- Antes de declarar o bloqueio eu jogo @Sudden Spoiling.

Minha dúvida é a seguinte, @Sudden Spoiling torna estas criaturas em 0/2 ou não altera o +3/+3 que cada uma delas recebeu e logo ficam 3/5 cada uma?

Fiquei em dúvida porque li em outros fóruns onde resoluções acabam se divergindo:

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/270316-sudden-spoiling-overrun

&

https://www.ligamagic.com.br/?view=forum/mensagem&id=106647
 
hsorgon

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Postado em: 11/10/18 01:53
Boa Noite Guinnf!

A carta Sudden Spoiling, assim como qualquer outra que diz a(s) criatura(s) torna(m)-se X/X até o final do turno, aplica-se somente ao poder base da criatura, qualquer outro efeito de bônus (mágicas, auras, equipamentos, habilidades que dão +1/+1 aplicam-se após isso.

Portanto elas ficam 3/5, mas perdem o atropelar.
 
hsorgon

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Postado em: 11/10/18 02:02
Segue abaixo a regra para confirmar, já que você viu ambas as respostas em outro fórum:

208.4: Effects that set a creature's power and/or toughness to specific values may refer to that creature's "base power," "base toughness," or "base power and toughness." Other continuous effects may further modify the creature's power and toughness. See rule 613, "Interaction of Continuous Effects."
 
lgmercadante

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Postado em: 11/10/18 09:03
Indo mais afundo nesse assunto ainda...

Efeitos contínuos (que são citados no final da regra postada acima) são aplicados em camadas, em sequência.

613.1. The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:

613.1a. Layer 1: Copy effects are applied. See rule 706, "Copying Objects."

613.1b. Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.

613.1c. Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 612, "Text-Changing Effects."

613.1d. Layer 4: Type-changing effects are applied. These include effects that change an object's card type, subtype, and/or supertype.

613.1e. Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied.

613.1f. Layer 6: Ability-adding effects, ability-removing effects, and effects that say an object can't have an ability are applied.

613.1g. Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.

613.2. Within layers 1-6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)

613.3. Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)

613.3a. Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.

613.3b. Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.

613.3c. Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.

613.3d. Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, "Counters."

613.3e. Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature's power and toughness are applied. Such effects take the value of power and apply it to the creature's toughness, and take the value of toughness and apply it to the creature's power.

Example: A 1/3 creature is given +0/+1 by an effect. Then another effect switches the creature's power and toughness. Its new power and toughness is 4/1. A new effect gives the creature +5/+0. Its "unswitched" power and toughness would be 6/4, so its actual power and toughness is 4/6.

Example: A 1/3 creature is given +0/+1 by an effect. Then another effect switches the creature's power and toughness. Its new power and toughness is 4/1. If the +0/+1 effect ends before the switch effect ends, the creature becomes 3/1.

Example: A 1/3 creature is given +0/+1 by an effect. Then another effect switches the creature's power and toughness. Then another effect switches its power and toughness again. The two switches essentially cancel each other, and the creature becomes 1/4

A camada que interessa nesse caso é a 7. Veja que os efeitos nessa camada são aplicados em sequência.

O efeito do Sudden Spoiling é aplicado na camada 7b e o efeito de Overrun é aplicado na camada 7c.
 
Guinnf

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Postado em: 16/10/18 02:04
Muito Obrigado pela explicação!

Isso foi bem esclarecedor.